希拉里:女性问题是阻挡世界进步的最后障碍
http://news.QQ.com 2009年08月26日10:55 新华网
美国国务卿希拉里·克林顿。[资料图片]
新华网北京8月26日电 (刘畅)当希拉里·克林顿还是美国第一夫人时,她就因以维护全球女性权益的“斗士”自居而闻名世界。今年,希拉里就任美国国务卿后,立即在国务院新设了一位主管国际女性问题的特别大使。《纽约时报》记者马克·兰德乐在希拉里启程前往非洲之前,就女性问题以及奥巴马政府相关的外交政策等问题,进行了采访。以下是采访摘要:
记者:在听证会上,您曾说要将女性问题作为美国外交政策的核心策略。但事实上,在世界的大部分地区,性别问题甚至不被认为是人权问题。您如何克服这种根深蒂固的文化阻力?
希拉里:你不仅要意识到到这种观念有多么根深蒂固,更要了解如果我们不去解决女性问题,我们所追寻的外交政策将无法实现或者很难实现。
对于那些因为种种原因无法行使选举权的人们来说,民主只是一句空谈。因此我到国外出访时,更愿意与女性朋友共事,我谈论女性权益,会见女性活动家,我对我见到的每个领导人提出对女性问题的关注。
我个人认为女性问题是阻挡世界进步的最后一个障碍,我们在实现人类平等、共同参与的旅途上已经做出了诸多改善。但是在太多地方,被压迫的女性们仍时时提醒着我们,要最终实现人类的潜能有多么艰难。
记者:我很好奇在所有的女性问题中您最重视的是哪个?奥巴马政府是否会着重于某个特定的问题,譬如贩卖妇女问题,性暴力问题,母婴健康问题,或是女性教育问题?就像布什政府曾最着手于艾滋病问题,这也成为了他的标志性策略之一。
希拉里:我们所谓的标志性策略就是我们将女性问题作为外交政策的核心。至于我们具体应该着重于哪个问题,在不同的国家地区都有不同的答案。有些地方,女性不享有政治与经济权利,然而教育权和健康问题却得到保护;在另一些地方,女性也许享有选举权,却仍然有人杀死新出生的女婴。
所以这并不是一个具体的项目,它更多的是一个策略。就像在我们的全球健康行动计划中,关注母婴健康已经成为奥巴马政府的新创。我们对布什总统2003年启动的艾滋病紧急援助计划取得的成果感到十分骄傲。我们意识到,这不仅仅是如何应对全球艾滋病的问题,更是一个女性疾病的问题,因为女性是最脆弱易感的群体,并且通常无力保护自己。如今越来越多的年轻女性甚至少女染上艾滋病。
这个世界每一分钟都有产妇因为医疗条件太差而去世。艾滋病、肺结核、疟疾,它们都有可能杀死一位母亲。母婴健康是一个女性问题,同时也是家庭问题,更是儿童问题。作为美国,我们想对那些有着产妇死亡率偏高的国家说;“我们关心孩子的未来,因此,我们也关心女性的现况。”这是一个有力的声明。
记者:在您看来,女性的经济权利和政治权利哪个更重要?您希望女性先得到经济上的权利然后谋求政治上的角色,还是给予她们更多的法律和政治的权利之后再在经济领域获得一席之地呢?
希拉里:这个问题很好,因为我们看到在历史上这两种模式都行得通。在我们的宪法中,女性最初只被给予了选举权,而没有经济的权利。1920年,女性的权利范围得到了拓宽,她们才在社会上寻求到了多种多样的角色和地位,包括独立于家庭的经济地位。
印度是一个60年民主历史的国家,它的选举权对所有人,所有种姓,所有性别都是平等的,因此印度的每位女性都享有选举权。然而,由于缺乏经济上的自由,她们并没有带来应有的影响力。这也是为什么印度政府如此努力的寻求给予女性平等的政治机遇和经济机遇。
我曾访问过一个印度女性个体经营者组织。早在这个组织的女性朋友们出生之前印度就有了选举自由,但是直到被赋予了经济的权利,可以从家庭中独立出来走向社会,她们才真正找到作为主人翁的感觉。这绝不是只有选举权就可以实现的。
记者:在作为国务卿的访问中,可以看出您非常注重小额信贷的作用。这是否与您更注重女性的经济地位有关呢?
希拉里:这个问题很有趣。这部分与我访问的地区有关,也与我自1983年随克林顿在阿肯色州工作时与小额信贷相关的项目有关。
我看过许多国际民意调查,它们的结果让我很吃惊:不论男性还是女性,人们最想要的只是一份收入良好的工作。人类最深处的渴望是有能力养活自己,并且给自己的孩子一个美好的未来。
小额信贷企业为女性获得经济地位提供帮助。追溯到穆罕默德·尤诺斯在孟加拉国建立的第一个小额信贷组织发展的坎坷道路,女性比男性更看重对未来的投资。在还贷方面,她们也更加可靠,因为她们更渴望得到更多的帮助,也渴望得到这些小额信贷机构的认可。
因此,我并不是对经济权利或是政治社会权利有所偏重。我认为两者是相辅相成的。
记者:有反恐专家研究称,培养恐怖主义集团的国家也恰恰是那些忽视女性权益的国家。您倡导的女性主义活动与美国的国家安全是否有所关联?
希拉里:这两者是密不可分的。作为美国的国务卿,我提倡关注女性权益的部分原因就是因为它与美国的国家利益息息相关。如果你关注恐怖主义泛滥的区域,就不难看出这些组织都是反现代化的,这可以从他们对待女性的方式得到证明。
在阿富汗,为了不让女孩上学向她们泼硫酸的人却打着反对压迫的幌子。这只能说明,面对高速发展的世界,那些恐怖主义者和他们同情者感到强烈的不安和迷惑:他们打开电视机却看到有些女性以他们无法想象的方式生活着。想到自己社会中的年轻女性也将走向独立的未来,他们惶恐自己的文化价值观被深深的威胁了。
记者:许多女性权益未得到充分保护的国家对美国有着非常重要的战略地位:譬如巴基斯坦、沙特阿拉伯、印度。您怎样在这些国家倡导女性权益而又不损害两国关系呢?
希拉里:在这些战略关系中,许多国家都有关于提高当地女性地位、保护女性权益的承诺。在印度,女性权益方面发生的变化是十分显著的。虽然那里还是有成千上万的贫穷女性,但她们已经受到越来越多的重视:她们在公共职位中任职,经济地位也日益提高,得到了社会的认可。
我在参加中美战略经济对话时会见了中国的领导人,中国有许多女性高层领导,也有许多女性朋友在政治和经济中发挥愈加重要的作用。
随着科技的发展,家长可以利用声波图确定胎儿的性别,他们也许会为了想要一个男孩而不惜将腹中的女婴流产。这些观念是根盘蒂结的。但是在政府的层面上,我们可以看到他们的承诺和公开度。
在另一些我们有着战略安全利益的国家中,若想将女性问题放进议程共同推进是非常困难的。当我们对阿富汗进行战略回顾时,我们清楚地明白,我们无法解决所有的问题,我们不得不重点关注那些关键性的问题。但女性的社会地位以及她们的社会参与度就是关键问题之一。
记者:我想问一个关于印度的问题。美国刚刚与印度达成一项战略对话协议,虽然众所周知印度仍是贩卖妇女的最大集中地,我注意到您此行并未着重在这个问题上。您与印度商讨其它诸多事务的同时是否会继续推进贩卖妇女问题的解决?
希拉里:当然。事实上,我们每年都在年度报告中提到人口买卖问题。对我来说,这个议题的优先度是非常高的,在我们与许多其它国家的持续对话中,它也是一个重要的部分。但在一个民主国家,比如印度,很难将具体规定适用于当地的司法机构-——包括当地的警察、当地的法官、以及当地政府。我并不怀疑印度政府本身对此事的重视程度。
记者:如果把美国自911以来花费在巴基斯坦的军事援助用于女性的教育和健康,一切会好一些么?
希拉里:我认为答案是肯定的。在我与穆沙拉夫先生的多次会谈中,我始终坚持这个观点。
我曾访问过巴基斯坦的一个村庄,离拉合尔45分钟的距离。当时我作为第一夫人访问巴基斯坦,我们见到了许多母亲和祖母辈的女性。她们非常希望她们的女儿可以像她们的儿子一样去念中学,但他们儿子就读的学校并不在这所村庄里,他们需要到外地去。我们无法想象一个女孩子离开村庄到外地,去继续接受教育会如此困难。
每当我想到在医药和教育等专业领域十分杰出的巴基斯坦人,就更加认为如果巴基斯坦在孩子的教育问题上下更大功夫,一切会有很大的不同,贫穷家庭的孩子就不会被送到极端分子手中接受极端教育。现在我们仍然致力于创造这种不同,因为援助那里女性的教育和健康已经是我们目标的一部分。
记者:这也是我们如何合理分配资源的问题。
希拉里:是的。美国议员克里、卢格等提出的援款就是针对巴基斯坦的这些方面的,我们希望尝试做出一些补救。
记者:性暴力在非洲的许多地区都很严重。在刚果的一些地区,性暴力几乎成为了战争的一种工具。在这种情况下,要如何与之对抗呢?
希拉里:奥巴马总统,我和所有的美国人绝不会姑息纵容这种荒唐、麻木、野蛮的对女性的暴力犯罪。我们并不确切知道我们能做什么,但是我们将提供一些援助,也会提供一些关于如何更好的管理部落的想法。我们要为此敲响警钟。
对女性进行性暴力侵犯的是当地的武装分子和军警。这些人利用当地矿藏做摇钱树,有着良好的收入。丰富的矿藏是刚果(金)最主要的天然资源,许多用于手机和其它高科技数字产品芯片的原料都是由这些矿产加工而成。由于经手着数千万美元的财富,使得他们似乎享有一种特权,可以侵犯社会最弱势的女性群体而不受到惩罚。
记者:我曾经出席过许多您参加的海外女性活动,许多男士很快看自己的手机或是开始打盹。你要如何打破这种将女性问题视作“粉领区域”问题的思维定式?
希拉里:我给出这样的回答:女性问题是稳定的问题,安全的问题,平等的问题。世界银行还有许多其它机构的分析反复证明,哪里的女性受到不公正待遇,哪里的平等权利受到忽视,哪里就充满着不稳定,甚至成为极端主义者的温床。
一个生活足以自保的女人,有钱送子女上学接受教育,但并一定愿意养育更多孩子。由水源和土地引起的战争将渐渐减少。这些都是有联系的。而我们如何获得所谓硬实力和软实力,以及如何运用它们引领美国乃至全世界的进步,这是一大课题。我们正在让这个世界对我们的子孙后代而言,变得愈加安全。
记者:上个月在新德里,一位年轻的女士曾向您提过一个有趣的问题:您如何看待印度和美国女性的进步?她指出,印度在独立30年间曾选出过一位女性总理,而美国却从未出现女性总统。从自己的总统选举中,您是否有值得与全球女性分享的经验呢?
希拉里:你应该听我回答过许多类似的问题,不论在日本还是韩国,或是印尼、印度和拉美。这是我最常被问到的问题之一,通常伴随着诸如在总统竞争中我与奥巴马总统针锋相对,而今要与他共事等等此类问题。许多年轻的女性都有这样的问题。我认为这一切令人感到兴奋和满足。
我的竞选在许多方面给了年轻女士很大的信心。人们对我最普遍的评价便是:“你的竞选给了我勇气。”或“你的竞选改变了我女儿的人生。”或“由于你的竞选,我重返校园。”所以,这是项未竟的事业,年轻的女士们知道我任重而道远。
她们中的绝大多数不会竞选任何国家公职。但她们也许会寻求家人并不支持的教育机会,也许会接受一份有挑战的工作,她们知道自己有能力胜任这些。也有可能,她们会站出来大声抗议所见的不公正。这就像水中荡起的涟漪,一波一波,无法阻挡。
我曾遇见过一位在印度女性个体经营者组织的女子,她是位贫穷而未接受过教育的女性,她说“我是印度女性个体经营者组织的主席,是从一百一十万女性中选出来的。”我想说的是,她的此番陈述太精彩了。
我从这份工作中获得了很多乐趣,我觉得它是至关重要的。而看到有人因为女性活动和演讲受到改变,而这种影响是又如此难以置信的深刻,深深地打动着我。
Hillary Clinton: women's issues is the last obstacle blocking progress in the world
http://news.QQ.com 2009 Nian 08 Yue 26 Ri 10:55 Xinhua
U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. [Profile picture]
Xinhua Beijing August 26 (Xinhua Liu Chang) When the first lady Hillary Clinton or the United States, she, due to the maintenance of global women's rights "fighters" itself as the world-famous. This year, Hillary Clinton became U.S. Secretary of State immediately after the State Council set up a new head of the Special Ambassador for the international women's issues. "The New York Times" reporter Mark Land enjoy Hillary Clinton before leaving for Africa on women's issues and Obama's foreign policy and other government-related issues, interviews were conducted. Following is the interview:
Reporter: At the hearing, you have said to women's issues as a core strategy of American foreign policy. But in fact, in most parts of the world, gender issues are not even considered human rights issues. How do you overcome this deep-rooted culture of resistance?
Hillary: You not only to realize that this kind of idea of how deep-rooted, but also to understand that if we do not address women's issues, we are pursuing foreign policy will not be achieved, or difficult to achieve.
For those who, for whatever reason unable to exercise the right to vote of the people, democracy is just an empty talk. So when I go abroad to visit, the more willing to work with female friends, I am talking about women's rights, met with women activists, I see each of my leaders on women issues.
I personally think that women's issues is hindering the progress of the last obstacles to the world, we are to achieve human equality, participatory journey has made a lot of improvement. But in too many places, women were still oppressed reminding us that we must finally realize how difficult human potential.
Reporter: I am curious to women's issues in all of your top priority is what? Obama administration would focus on a particular issue, such as trafficking in women, sexual violence, maternal and child health problems, or women's education? Like the Bush administration has the best start in the AIDS issue, which has become a landmark of his strategies.
Hillary Clinton: Our strategy is the so-called landmark women's issues we will be the core of its foreign policy. As to whether we should focus on what the specific issues in different countries and regions have different answers. In some places, women do not enjoy the political and economic rights, however, the right to education and health problems are to be protected; in other places, women may enjoy the right to vote, but there are still people to kill the new-born baby girl.
Therefore, this is not a specific project, it is more of a strategy. As in our global health action plan, attention to maternal and child health has become an Obama administration will be new. We launched in 2003 by President Bush for emergency assistance programs for AIDS are very proud of the achievements. We are aware that this is not just how to respond to global AIDS problem, it is a disease of women, because women are susceptible to the most vulnerable groups, and are often unable to protect themselves. Today a growing number of young women and even girls infected with HIV.
Every minute in this world has a poor mother died because of medical conditions. AIDS, tuberculosis, malaria, they are likely to kill a mother. Maternal and child health is a female problem, but also family problems, even children. As the United States, we want those countries with high maternal mortality rate, said; "we care about their children's future, therefore, we are also concerned about the status of women." This is a powerful statement.
Reporter: In your opinion, women's economic rights and political rights which is more important? You want an economic return on women's rights first, and then to seek a political role, or to give them more legal and political rights in the economic field after it obtained a place?
Hillary: This is a good question, because we have seen in the history of these two models are feasible. In our Constitution, women initially were given the right to vote, but no economic rights. In 1920, women's rights has been to broaden the scope, they are only in the community to seek to a wide variety of roles and status, including separate from the family's economic status.
India is a democratic country with a history of 60 years, and its right to vote for all, all caste, all genders are equal, so every woman in India have the right to vote. However, due to the lack of economic freedom, they did not bring proper influence. This is why the Indian government seeking so hard to give women equal political opportunities and economic opportunities.
I have visited an Indian women's organizations, self-employed persons. As early as this organization in India before the birth of a female friend who had the elections are free, but until they are given the economy right, we can separate from the family into society, they are really to find a sense of ownership. This is by no means only the right to vote can be achieved.
Reporter: as secretary of state's visit, we can see that you attach great importance to the role of micro-credit. Is this you pay more attention to women's economic status level?
Hillary: This question is very interesting. This part and I visited the area, but also with me since 1983 with Clinton in Arkansas while working with microfinance-related projects only.
I have seen a number of international public opinion polls, their results so I was surprised: whether male or female, people most want is a well-paid jobs. The deepest aspirations of human beings have the ability to feed themselves, and give their children a better future.
Micro-credit enterprises to the economic status of women to obtain help. Be traced back to Muhammad Yunus in Bangladesh to establish the first development of a micro-credit organization bumpy road of women than men, pay more attention to investment in the future. In repayment, the women are also more reliable because they are more eager to get more help, but also eager to get these micro-credit institutions recognized.
Therefore, I am not on the political and social rights, economic rights, or some emphasis. I think the two are complementary.
Reporter: There is, said counter-terrorism experts to study and train terrorist groups in countries is precisely the countries that ignore women's rights. Your advocacy of feminist activities in the national security of the United States whether there are related?
Hillary: That the two are inseparable. As the U.S. secretary of state, I am concerned about women's rights advocate Part of the reason is because it is closely related with the U.S. national interest. If you are concerned about terrorism and the proliferation of regional, it is not difficult to see that these organizations are anti-modern, can be seen from the way they treat women, been proven.
In Afghanistan, in order to prevent throwing acid on girls going to school to them against the oppression of the people have the name of the cover. This only shows the face of the rapid development of the world, those terrorists and their sympathizers felt a strong anxiety and confusion: they turn on the TV only to find that some women that they can not imagine a way to live. Thought of the young women in society will also move toward an independent future, they fear their own cultural values are deeply threatened.
Reporter: Many women's rights have not been adequately protected in countries the U.S. has a very important strategic position: For example, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and India. How do you advocate women's rights in these countries without undermining the bilateral relations?
Hillary: In these strategic relationships, many countries have on the advancement of a local women's status, protect women's rights commitments. In India, women's rights and interests of the changes is quite remarkable. While there, there are still tens of thousands of poor women, but they have already been more and more attention: they are to serve in public positions, economic status is also increasing, has been recognized by the society.
I participate in Sino-US strategic economic dialogue meeting with China's leaders, China has many women in senior leadership, there are many female friends in politics and the economy playing an increasingly important role.
With the development of technology, parents can use the sonogram to determine sex of the fetus, they may be in order to want a boy and baby girl at the belly of abortion. These ideas is the root plate pedicle junction. But the government level, we can see that their commitment and openness.
In others, we have a strategic security interests of the countries, if you want to put the agenda together to promote women's issues is very difficult. When we conduct a strategic review of Afghanistan, we clearly understand that we can not solve all the problems, we have to focus on those key issues. But the women's social status and their degree of social participation are key issues.
Reporter: I would like to ask a question on India. The United States has just entered into a strategic dialogue with India the agreement, although well known, India is still the biggest concentration of traffic in women, this trip I noticed that you do not focus on this issue. You and India to discuss other matters, while many will continue to promote the solution to the problem of trafficking in women?
Hillary Clinton: Of course. In fact, we have every year in the annual report referred to human trafficking issues. For me, this topic is very high degree of priority, in our ongoing dialogue with many other countries, it is also an important part. But in a democratic country, such as India, it is difficult to specifically applies to the local judiciary --- including the local police, local judges and local government. I do not doubt the Indian Government's own emphasis on the matter.
Reporter: If the United States since 911 has been spent on military assistance to Pakistan for women's education and health, all will be better Mody?
Hillary: I think the answer is yes. In my many talks with Mr. Musharraf, I always insist on this point.
I visited a village in Pakistan, Lahore, 45 minutes away from the distance. At that time I, as a first lady's visit to Pakistan, we have seen a lot of mothers and grandmothers of women. They very much hope that their daughters can be the same as their sons go to school and secondary school, but their son, attending school is not provided in this village, they need to go to the field. We can not imagine a girl to leave the village to the field to continue their education would be so difficult.
Whenever I think that in medicine and education, areas of expertise are very prominent Pakistanis, the more that if the child's education in Pakistan even greater effort from top to bottom, and all will be very different from children of poor families will not be sent to the receive education in the hands of extremists extremism. Now that we remain committed to the creation of such a difference, because aid, where women's education and health is a part of our goal.
Reporter: This is how we rational allocation of resources.
Hillary: Yes. United States Senator Kerry, Lugar and so on dollars in relief funds was aimed at Pakistan in these areas, we want to try to remedy.
Reporter: sexual violence in many parts of Africa is very serious. Some areas in the Congo, sexual violence is almost becoming a tool of war. In this case, how to confront it?
Hillary: President Obama, I and all Americans will not tolerate condone such absurd, numbness, barbaric crimes of violence against women. We do not know exactly what we can do, but we will provide some assistance, will also provide some information about how to better management of tribal ideas. We should do this sounded the alarm.
Sexual violence against women is the local militants and police. These people make use of local mineral deposits cash cow, have a good income. The mineral-rich Congo (DRC), the most important natural resources, many used cell phones and other high-tech digital products, chips, raw materials are processed by these minerals. As the handle tens of millions of dollars of wealth, making them seem to enjoy a privilege can be violated society's most vulnerable groups of women with impunity.
Reporter: I have attended many of your women to participate in overseas activities, many men will soon start to see their mobile phone or a nap. How do you want to break this to women's issues as a "pink zone" mind-set problem?
Hillary: I have given this answer: women's issues is the stability issues, security issues, equality issues. There are many other agencies, the World Bank, the analysis has repeatedly shown that where women have been unfairly treated, where equal rights have been ignored, where as filled with uncertainty, and even become a hotbed for extremists.
Enough to protect themselves a life of woman, the money to send their children to school education, but be willing to raise more children. Water and land caused by the war will be gradually reduced. These are all linked. How do we get the so-called hard power and soft power, and how to use them to lead the United States and the world's progress, which is a major issue. We're making this world in terms of our future generations become increasingly safe.
Reporter: Last month in New Delhi, a young lady have you talked about an interesting question: What do you think India and the United States women's progress? She pointed out that India's independence 30 years has been elected a woman prime minister, while the United States has never been a female president. From their own presidential election, you see if there is with women around the world to share experience?
Hillary: You should listen to me answer many similar problems, both in Japan and South Korea, or Indonesia, India and Latin America. This is my one of the questions most often asked, usually accompanied by the president such as Obama and I compete against each other, but now want to work with him, and so these issues. Many young women have this problem. I think it's all exciting and satisfying.
My campaign in many respects to the young lady much confidence. People of my evaluation of the most common is: "Your campaign has given me courage." Or "Your campaign has changed my daughter's life." Or "because of your campaign, I return to school." So, this is items unfinished business, the young ladies know that I am a long way.
The vast majority of them will not run for public office of any country. But they may find their family members do not support access to education, a challenge may be to accept a work, they know they have the ability to perform these. Is also possible, they would stand up and loudly protest the injustices seen. It's like ripples in water Dangqi, the waves can not stop.
I had ever met a self-employed women in India organized by women, she was a poor but have not received the education of women, she said, "I am a self-employed women in India, chairman of the organization, from the 1.1 million women selected out. "I want to say that This time of her presentation was really excellent.
I have gained from this work, a lot of fun, I think it is essential. And see the activities and speeches was because women were changed, and this effect is so incredibly profound, deeply moved me.
|